Posted By Paul
Thanks again to everyone for their support during my time of unemployment. Now that I am back in the world of the gainfully employed I have been reflecting on my time without a job and I've found a silver lining that I wanted to share.
As you can imagine, once I was unemployed my wife and I put a very tight leash on our spending. It was actually a very refreshing experience to scale back to essentials, it was a good reminder of how many things fall into the non-essential category.
For example, while I was unemployed I cut back significantly on my meals out. Many of my restaurant meals were from work lunches where I ate out (so it wasn't hard to stop this when I didn't have a job). Now that I'm working again I'm trying to keep that tradition of not eating out often. I still go out to lunch with coworkers occasionally but I'm going to try to keep it down to once a week at most. Instead of running out to lunch I bring a book to work and try to find a quiet corner to eat my lunch and catch up on my reading (that's been great since reading is something that I enjoy that I never seem to find time to do).
Speaking of reading, while unemployed I decided to not buy any books and to instead catch up on books that I had bought, borrowed, or received as a gift (but never got around to reading). I discovered that this ended up being a large pile of books that I'm now going through. Being laid off was a great wake up call to force myself to not buy new books until I was done with the ones that I already had.
Also, those of you who have been unemployed can probably relate to the feeling I would get when I would think about buying something I didn't need when I didn't have a job. It's this sort of heavy feeling in your stomach when all of the financial anxiety gets stirred up again when you spend even a mere $20 on some non-essential. Well now that I'm working again I still remember that feeling which helps me think twice before I buy anything I don't need. I'm not trying to live the life of a monk, but it was a good reminder to watch the non-essential spending closely since that's always a place where you can save.
Most of all, being laid off was a great reminder of how the rules that I follow really help you weather a rainy day. I had my emergency fund to help me sleep at night, and best of all, I had a lifestyle that wasn't too expensive for me. Living the paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle becomes a BIG problem when the paychecks stop, so I am very thankful that this wasn't me. During this time off I was so thankful for our lack of credit card debt, a tolerable mortgage, and lack of extraneous monthly expenses. I feel a renewed sense of having made the right choice by living a frugal life.
Showing posts with label layoff. Show all posts
Showing posts with label layoff. Show all posts
Saturday, March 8, 2008
Tuesday, February 19, 2008
Laid Off: Summary Of My Job Hunt.
Posted By Paul
Hi Everyone,
I was just going through my job hunt notes and I thought people might enjoy the 'stats' from my job hunt that I was able to compile:
Days unemployed: 28
Weeks of unemployment claimed: 2 (I was laid off on a Tuesday so that partial week's pay made me ineligible for unemployment that week, then there was a 'waiting week' before I could claim benefits).
Total recruiters I talked to or emailed: 12
Recruiters I met in person: 6
Total jobs applied for: 32 (10 through recruiters, 22 on my own)
Number of companies I never heard back from at all: 24
Companies that phone interviewed me and passed: 6
Companies that met with me in person: 2
Companies that made me an offer: 1
Wow, even I'm surprised that it essentially took 32 tries before I found one job where I liked the company and they liked me. Just goes to show that persistence is a big part of job hunting.
Hi Everyone,
I was just going through my job hunt notes and I thought people might enjoy the 'stats' from my job hunt that I was able to compile:
Days unemployed: 28
Weeks of unemployment claimed: 2 (I was laid off on a Tuesday so that partial week's pay made me ineligible for unemployment that week, then there was a 'waiting week' before I could claim benefits).
Total recruiters I talked to or emailed: 12
Recruiters I met in person: 6
Total jobs applied for: 32 (10 through recruiters, 22 on my own)
Number of companies I never heard back from at all: 24
Companies that phone interviewed me and passed: 6
Companies that met with me in person: 2
Companies that made me an offer: 1
Wow, even I'm surprised that it essentially took 32 tries before I found one job where I liked the company and they liked me. Just goes to show that persistence is a big part of job hunting.
Laid Off: Day 28 - The Job Hunt Ends
Posted By Paul
Hi Everyone,
Well I can't believe it, but the job hunt is over. One of the companies I talked to made me an offer and I am taking it. I actually report for work tomorrow (it's still sort of sinking in).
So this time tomorrow I'll be knee-deep in new people, new things to learn, and new challenges. It really is the greatest irony that I had all of this time off and couldn't really enjoy it.
I thought I would add a few little bits of advice for the "offer" stage of the job hunt while it's still fresh in my mind.
-Remember that when a company makes you an offer, there is no harm in taking a little time to think about it. In fact I make it a point to take every offer and spend a day thinking over it just to make sure that I don't make any rash decision. Often companies will be eager to have you accept the offer, but they will also understand if you say: "The offer sounds great, but I just want to take a day to think about it."
-I'm not an expert on this at all, but you can negotiate the offer if you want. Perhaps you would like more money, you can ask for it. Maybe you'd like more vacation time, you can ask for that too. Keep in mind that once a company has made you an offer, they WANT you to take the job so that means you are sort of in a position of power. I say 'sort of' because in my case I was of course unemployed, and was looking forward to having a paycheck again. Still I decided to ask for a little more vacation time (which I got). Generally the worst thing they will say is "No the offer stands as is." So you can negotiate IF YOU WANT. One of my friends was a hiring manager at a company where in order to get approval to make someone an offer you had to approve the budget for the offering salary PLUS 10%. In essence at this company whatever salary they offer you, they are already approved to offer you 10% more, you just need to ask for it. I doubt most companies work that way, but just remember that you can negotiate an offer if you want.
-Feel free to ask questions. Got questions about their health insurance or vacation policy? By all means feel free to ask. I've never found a company that wasn't willing to help you get your questions answered, as it is a VERY reasonable thing to do when considering an offer. In fact most of the times when I deal with a company they seem to appreciate it when I ask questions as it shows that I'm taking their offer seriously.
Well, I guess that's about it. Thanks to all the folks that wished me well, and maybe there will be future posts relating to starting a new job.
Hi Everyone,
Well I can't believe it, but the job hunt is over. One of the companies I talked to made me an offer and I am taking it. I actually report for work tomorrow (it's still sort of sinking in).
So this time tomorrow I'll be knee-deep in new people, new things to learn, and new challenges. It really is the greatest irony that I had all of this time off and couldn't really enjoy it.
I thought I would add a few little bits of advice for the "offer" stage of the job hunt while it's still fresh in my mind.
-Remember that when a company makes you an offer, there is no harm in taking a little time to think about it. In fact I make it a point to take every offer and spend a day thinking over it just to make sure that I don't make any rash decision. Often companies will be eager to have you accept the offer, but they will also understand if you say: "The offer sounds great, but I just want to take a day to think about it."
-I'm not an expert on this at all, but you can negotiate the offer if you want. Perhaps you would like more money, you can ask for it. Maybe you'd like more vacation time, you can ask for that too. Keep in mind that once a company has made you an offer, they WANT you to take the job so that means you are sort of in a position of power. I say 'sort of' because in my case I was of course unemployed, and was looking forward to having a paycheck again. Still I decided to ask for a little more vacation time (which I got). Generally the worst thing they will say is "No the offer stands as is." So you can negotiate IF YOU WANT. One of my friends was a hiring manager at a company where in order to get approval to make someone an offer you had to approve the budget for the offering salary PLUS 10%. In essence at this company whatever salary they offer you, they are already approved to offer you 10% more, you just need to ask for it. I doubt most companies work that way, but just remember that you can negotiate an offer if you want.
-Feel free to ask questions. Got questions about their health insurance or vacation policy? By all means feel free to ask. I've never found a company that wasn't willing to help you get your questions answered, as it is a VERY reasonable thing to do when considering an offer. In fact most of the times when I deal with a company they seem to appreciate it when I ask questions as it shows that I'm taking their offer seriously.
Well, I guess that's about it. Thanks to all the folks that wished me well, and maybe there will be future posts relating to starting a new job.
Monday, February 18, 2008
Laid Off: Day 27 - The Job Hunt Gains Momentum
Posted By Paul
It's amazing how with job hunting it seems to be nothing for weeks, and then all of a sudden everyone starts calling you back. I literally had companies that I submitted my resume to weeks ago call me back the same day as a company I submitted my resume to the day before. What does it all mean? Well I think the best conclusion to draw from all this is that job hunting has a certain amount of randomness involved. Some companies move very quickly, others move very slowly, and sometimes it all means that you have weeks with nobody calling you and then suddenly everyone wants to talk to you.
I have spoken with several companies since my last posting (phone interviews, and some in person interviews). Here are some of my impressions from the recent hunt:
1) You shouldn't consider it a personal failure if a phone screen doesn't go well. I've had interviews where about 10 minutes into the interview it was obvious that I wasn't what they wanted. It can be an depressing experience to go into a job interview with all of this optimism only to discover that they wanted a completely different skill set, but you have to not take it personally. If you are out there sending resumes and interviewing with various companies you'll have to expect that some of the companies you talk to won't be a good fit. Doesn't mean the good fit isn't out there, it just means this wasn't it.
2) Be prepared for a variety of interview styles. Throughout my career I've had a pretty wide range of interviews. I've had interviews where we spend the time discussing my background, skills, career goals, and how well they match the position. I've also had interviews where they introduce themselves and then immediately start quizzing me about skills listed on my resume. I've also had interviews where I've been asked questions like: "Estimate the amount of gasoline consumed in LA in a day." and "Someone wants you to design a parking garage, what factors would you take into account." (note that gasoline consumption and parking garages had NOTHING to do with the job, they just wanted to see me work through the problem). My only advice for folks going through the process are:
-Try to prepare. You can search the internet for common interview questions (either general ones or ones specific to your skill set). It's worth taking the time to look over a set of questions and study them in preparation for an interview. I keep a document that has a set of common interview questions that I've run into. Before every phone screen or in person interview I go over the list as a quick refresher.
-Try to relax. Interviewing is stressful, that's simply how it is. Try to relax as much as you can. Try to get into the mindset that you are trying to see if you like them just as much as they are trying to see if they like you. It really is true (though I admit it doesn't seem like it when you're on unemployment).
-If you blow an interview, don't be too hard on yourself. I had a phone interview where the interview was me being asked technical question after technical question for half an hour (I felt like I was on a quiz show or something). I did pretty well, I gave pretty good answers to all of their questions but some of the terms they asked me to define stumped me. They decided to not bring me in for an interview. I was disappointed, but I have to realize that this company probably wanted someone who could rattle off the answers to their questions from memory, and that wasn't me. Not to say that I'm bad at what I do, it just means that I wasn't what they wanted.
3) Try not to schedule too densely. If you are so lucky as to find yourself in a situation where companies are clamoring to talk to you, then my suggestions is to not schedule these interviews too closely. You never know which interview might start late or run long (I had a phone interview that was supposed to go from 2PM to 2:30, but they ran late so we didn't even get started until 2:20 and didn't finish until 3:00PM). Also, take into consideration the fact that interviewing can be really tiring. Getting dressed up, meeting new people, putting yourself on the line in the hope of being offered a position...it's stressful, so try to schedule some recharge time in there or else you might run yourself ragged.
So I guess that's all of the advice I can give for this part of the process. Best wishes to my fellow job hunters out there. Remember there are lots of jobs out there, and you only need one!
It's amazing how with job hunting it seems to be nothing for weeks, and then all of a sudden everyone starts calling you back. I literally had companies that I submitted my resume to weeks ago call me back the same day as a company I submitted my resume to the day before. What does it all mean? Well I think the best conclusion to draw from all this is that job hunting has a certain amount of randomness involved. Some companies move very quickly, others move very slowly, and sometimes it all means that you have weeks with nobody calling you and then suddenly everyone wants to talk to you.
I have spoken with several companies since my last posting (phone interviews, and some in person interviews). Here are some of my impressions from the recent hunt:
1) You shouldn't consider it a personal failure if a phone screen doesn't go well. I've had interviews where about 10 minutes into the interview it was obvious that I wasn't what they wanted. It can be an depressing experience to go into a job interview with all of this optimism only to discover that they wanted a completely different skill set, but you have to not take it personally. If you are out there sending resumes and interviewing with various companies you'll have to expect that some of the companies you talk to won't be a good fit. Doesn't mean the good fit isn't out there, it just means this wasn't it.
2) Be prepared for a variety of interview styles. Throughout my career I've had a pretty wide range of interviews. I've had interviews where we spend the time discussing my background, skills, career goals, and how well they match the position. I've also had interviews where they introduce themselves and then immediately start quizzing me about skills listed on my resume. I've also had interviews where I've been asked questions like: "Estimate the amount of gasoline consumed in LA in a day." and "Someone wants you to design a parking garage, what factors would you take into account." (note that gasoline consumption and parking garages had NOTHING to do with the job, they just wanted to see me work through the problem). My only advice for folks going through the process are:
-Try to prepare. You can search the internet for common interview questions (either general ones or ones specific to your skill set). It's worth taking the time to look over a set of questions and study them in preparation for an interview. I keep a document that has a set of common interview questions that I've run into. Before every phone screen or in person interview I go over the list as a quick refresher.
-Try to relax. Interviewing is stressful, that's simply how it is. Try to relax as much as you can. Try to get into the mindset that you are trying to see if you like them just as much as they are trying to see if they like you. It really is true (though I admit it doesn't seem like it when you're on unemployment).
-If you blow an interview, don't be too hard on yourself. I had a phone interview where the interview was me being asked technical question after technical question for half an hour (I felt like I was on a quiz show or something). I did pretty well, I gave pretty good answers to all of their questions but some of the terms they asked me to define stumped me. They decided to not bring me in for an interview. I was disappointed, but I have to realize that this company probably wanted someone who could rattle off the answers to their questions from memory, and that wasn't me. Not to say that I'm bad at what I do, it just means that I wasn't what they wanted.
3) Try not to schedule too densely. If you are so lucky as to find yourself in a situation where companies are clamoring to talk to you, then my suggestions is to not schedule these interviews too closely. You never know which interview might start late or run long (I had a phone interview that was supposed to go from 2PM to 2:30, but they ran late so we didn't even get started until 2:20 and didn't finish until 3:00PM). Also, take into consideration the fact that interviewing can be really tiring. Getting dressed up, meeting new people, putting yourself on the line in the hope of being offered a position...it's stressful, so try to schedule some recharge time in there or else you might run yourself ragged.
So I guess that's all of the advice I can give for this part of the process. Best wishes to my fellow job hunters out there. Remember there are lots of jobs out there, and you only need one!
Tuesday, February 12, 2008
Laid Off: Day 21 - Working with recruiters
Posted By Paul
Hello from day 21 off my layoff experience. I wanted to keep everyone updated on my journey back to gainful employment, and hopefully share some useful information along the way.
I won't repeat anything that I have already mentioned in my previous post
Currently I am what I would call right in the middle of the job hunt process. I am sending out resumes, doing phone screens and (in some cases) interviews, working with recruiters, and generally doing whatever I can to get a job. I had forgotten how tiring it can be to job hunt all day.
Now one thing I wanted to mention is that I am focusing on getting a job that might actually be a good long term fit for me. I'm not trying to find "any port in a storm". After looking at my finances, my emergency fund, severance, unemployment, and so on I feel that I can try to find a good job as opposed to just any job.
So one thing I've been experiencing a lot recently are recruiters. I wanted to share my impressions and experiences since they are becoming more and more common within various fields. My experiences are with recruiters that work in the high tech industry but I believe that the information in this post will apply to recruiters for numerous industries. Also I'm referring to third-party recruiters, which in my experience are the most common.
Here is an article describing the different types of recruiters in greater detail.
So let's start off with the basic question. What is a recruiter? Well a recruiter is someone who serves as your agent and tries to find you a job. If you have read my recent post:
Know Their Agenda
Then you're first thought might be: "What's in it for them?" That is a very good question.
Let's say you are a company and you are looking to hire someone for a particular position. Finding qualified candidates for a position can take a lot of work. If you just post a listing on a web page you may have to sift through literally hundreds of resumes to find one candidate that is actually qualified for the position. So you may decide to involve a recruiter.
What you do is give the recruiter the job description and you promise to pay them a commission if they find you the candidate that you ultimately hire. It can be a pretty good deal for you, as now you have this other party finding resumes, filtering them based on what you're looking for, and forwarding the best candidates to you.
Some may say, why wouldn't the recruiting company just barrage you with every resume they can lay their hands on in the hope that they'll get lucky? Well the reason is simple...if you were working with a recruiting company to help you find candidates, and instead they just barrage you with resumes would you work with them again?
So the idea is that the company gives the recruiter the job description and the recruiter does all of the leg work to find a small set of candidates that the company can interview. Now of course the company is not required to limit their search to JUST candidates that come from the recruiter and if they find a candidate through a different channel (like one of their employees refers them) then they don't have to pay the recruiter anything.
So what's it like working with recruiters? Well I think that sometimes recruiters get a bad reputation. I think recruiters are like many services, where a good one can be a great asset and a bad one can be a nightmare.
I really believe that if you are going to work with one or more recruiters that you should really work to manage the recruiter to make sure you are always on the same page.
Here is an example that happened to me. This was about 4 years ago when I was working for a company but was interested in other opportunities. A recruiter contacted me with a job that sounded really good. It was in a field that I had a lot of experience in, and I even knew a person who worked there. I talked to the recruiter about my ideal job. We discussed things like work environment, salary, and so on. They forwarded my resume to the company, and the company brought me in for an interview.
The short story is that I have never felt so much like I had aced the interview. I knew all of the software they were talking about, had experience with all of the tools they used, it seemed like a perfect fit. I came out of that interview excited about the new job.
My recruiter got back to me and sure enough they offered me a job...at 50% of my current pay! In our first discussion I had told my recruiter how much I made and said I wanted to stay in the same ballpark. The recruiter responded that the company wanted to hire someone much more junior so they only budgeted for a much less experienced person, but they liked me a lot (of course I would have liked me a lot at the salary they offered as well, it would have been a bargain). Suffice it to say that I didn't take the offer and never worked with THAT recruiter again. This is a great example of a BAD recruiting experience.
Now keep in mind, working with recruiters doesn't have to be like this, but you have to make sure that you and your recruiter are always on the same page. Here are some tips I suggest for working with a recruiter:
1) Be REALLY clearly with what your salary expectations are. The more ambiguous you are, the more likely it is that something will go wrong. If you don't even want to look at a job under a certain salary then tell them that. If you have some flexibility then tell them that too. I've heard some people say you should NEVER tell someone a specific number when talking salary, but I think that in the case of a recruiter you really should if for no other reason than to make sure you don't have the terrible scenario I described above.
2) If there is anything that would keep you from taking a job, let them know up front. If you refuse to commute more than 20 minutes, or you don't want a job where you have to wear a tie every day then let the recruiter know. It's in their best interest to make sure that they find you jobs that meet your criteria, so let them know what that is.
3) Be honest about any lead they present you with. If a recruiter sends you a lead, then look it over and give an honest opinion of how much the job appeals to you and also how good a fit you think you are for it. If there is something about the job that doesn't appeal to you, then the process can stop there, or you can go forward and hear more. It's really up to you. The recruiter doesn't want to send you on interviews when you have no chance of getting a job (or of taking the job), that just wastes their time and burns their credit with the company.
4) Make sure that a recruiter will only send your resume to places with your permission. This is pretty standard, but I have heard of recruiters that will just send your resume out to various places without even telling you about the lead. This is just asking for trouble. If you catch a recruiter doing this, I say stop working with them and go with someone else.
5) Be honest about the job hunting you are doing on your own. Let's say a recruiter comes to you with a job lead for a company, but you already sent your resume over to them that morning (or maybe some other recruiter has already sent your resume over). Tell them that. The worst faux pas in the recruiting world is to have your resume submitted by two different parties, because if that happens and you end up getting the job, who gets the commission?
6) Be aware of how the recruiter is motivated and get that to work for you. Recruiters want to get you A JOB, not necessarily the best job for you long term. If they can get you hired into a company that is a two hour commute for half the money and if for whatever reason you are willing to take the job then they're happy to do that. Keep that in mind and give them the information that lets them find you a great job.
7) Job hunt on your own, and don't feel obligated to work with only one recruiter. If the recruiter had their way, they would like you to only work with them and to do no job hunting on your own; however recruiters don't realistically expect you to do that. I think you should job hunt on your own. No one knows your skills and job preferences better than you do (and besides what else do you have to do all day?).
8) Track EVERY job lead. Whether or not you work with recruiters this is a good idea, but if you work with a recruiter (or more than one) and job hunt on your own it is imperative that you do this. That way you know who your resume has been submitted to, and by who. You don't want to be in a position where a recruiter calls you with a job lead for a company but you think (but aren't sure) that you've already applied there.
9) Keep your recruiter in the loop. I think that's just courtesy. I'm not saying that you have to call your recruiter every time you send a resume to someone, but if it looks like you might be landing a job (either one you found on your own or through a different recruiter) a recruiter will appreciate knowing that you might be off the market soon, and if you DO get a new job, they'll really appreciate knowing that you're off the market.
If you work with recruiters here are a few things I see when dealing with them:
-Sometimes you get a recruiter who implies they have a lot of job leads, when in fact they have one, and if you don't want that job, or have already applied for it you never hear from them again. It happens, you can always find another recruiter.
-Sometimes you get a recruiter who isn't familiar with your particular field and so they send you job leads that don't really match your skill set. The good recruiters will learn what you are specifically looking for quickly.
-Sometimes you get a recruiter who tries to push you into applying for a job that you don't really want, or maybe accepting an offer for a job that you are on the fence about. Remember they are motivated to get you placed, so don't let yourself be bullied into getting a job that you don't really want. The ultimate choice is up to you.
Another thing I've heard stories about (but never experienced myself) is where recruiters try to convince a candidate that the job market is much worse than it is, or that they're not as qualified as they think they are so the candidate gets desperate and scared, and is more willing to grab at the first thing that comes along. Of course if you do your own job hunt then you'll never fall for this.
I hope I haven't made recruiters sound like villains in this posting. In fact there are some great things recruiters can do for you. Here are some examples from my own experiences throughout my career:
-I had an interview with a company that a recruiter set me up with. After the interview the company told the recruiter that they liked me but they were worried that I didn't have a particular skill that was key to the job. The recruiter called my references and summarized what they had to say (which included 'quick learner' as part of their endorsement) and sent that summary to the company. That was something I could have never done on my own.
-A recruiter sent me a posting and under the list of 'must have' skills there was one thing that I didn't have. I told the recruiter this. They called the company and mentioned that I lacked this key skill, and the company said that considering my other experience they were willing to relax this restriction. If I had come across the posting myself then I might have sent my resume anyway, but it helped to have that feedback to know that my lack of a particular skill wasn't a deal-breaker.
-In a job hunt several years ago I had a job offer in hand, but there was another company (that I found through a recruiter) that I interviewed with that was my first choice. I told the recruiter that I had an offer but I REALLY would like to give this other company a chance to make me an offer before I accepted the first offer. The recruiter (seeing the possibility of losing a commission) was more than happy to call the company I was waiting on and let them know the situation so that they knew that I was about to go off the market but that I really wanted to hear back from them.
Wow, this ended up being a pretty long post, but I hope someone out the finds it useful. To summarize, recruiters can be incredibly useful agents in the job hunt, but you have to manage your relationship with them properly (which can be a lot of work unto itself).
My view is that I never assume a recruiter will find me a job, but I'm happy to work with anyone who wants to take my resume and find job leads for me. After all, you never know which lead will be the one that pans out.
Hello from day 21 off my layoff experience. I wanted to keep everyone updated on my journey back to gainful employment, and hopefully share some useful information along the way.
I won't repeat anything that I have already mentioned in my previous post
Currently I am what I would call right in the middle of the job hunt process. I am sending out resumes, doing phone screens and (in some cases) interviews, working with recruiters, and generally doing whatever I can to get a job. I had forgotten how tiring it can be to job hunt all day.
Now one thing I wanted to mention is that I am focusing on getting a job that might actually be a good long term fit for me. I'm not trying to find "any port in a storm". After looking at my finances, my emergency fund, severance, unemployment, and so on I feel that I can try to find a good job as opposed to just any job.
So one thing I've been experiencing a lot recently are recruiters. I wanted to share my impressions and experiences since they are becoming more and more common within various fields. My experiences are with recruiters that work in the high tech industry but I believe that the information in this post will apply to recruiters for numerous industries. Also I'm referring to third-party recruiters, which in my experience are the most common.
Here is an article describing the different types of recruiters in greater detail.
So let's start off with the basic question. What is a recruiter? Well a recruiter is someone who serves as your agent and tries to find you a job. If you have read my recent post:
Know Their Agenda
Then you're first thought might be: "What's in it for them?" That is a very good question.
Let's say you are a company and you are looking to hire someone for a particular position. Finding qualified candidates for a position can take a lot of work. If you just post a listing on a web page you may have to sift through literally hundreds of resumes to find one candidate that is actually qualified for the position. So you may decide to involve a recruiter.
What you do is give the recruiter the job description and you promise to pay them a commission if they find you the candidate that you ultimately hire. It can be a pretty good deal for you, as now you have this other party finding resumes, filtering them based on what you're looking for, and forwarding the best candidates to you.
Some may say, why wouldn't the recruiting company just barrage you with every resume they can lay their hands on in the hope that they'll get lucky? Well the reason is simple...if you were working with a recruiting company to help you find candidates, and instead they just barrage you with resumes would you work with them again?
So the idea is that the company gives the recruiter the job description and the recruiter does all of the leg work to find a small set of candidates that the company can interview. Now of course the company is not required to limit their search to JUST candidates that come from the recruiter and if they find a candidate through a different channel (like one of their employees refers them) then they don't have to pay the recruiter anything.
So what's it like working with recruiters? Well I think that sometimes recruiters get a bad reputation. I think recruiters are like many services, where a good one can be a great asset and a bad one can be a nightmare.
I really believe that if you are going to work with one or more recruiters that you should really work to manage the recruiter to make sure you are always on the same page.
Here is an example that happened to me. This was about 4 years ago when I was working for a company but was interested in other opportunities. A recruiter contacted me with a job that sounded really good. It was in a field that I had a lot of experience in, and I even knew a person who worked there. I talked to the recruiter about my ideal job. We discussed things like work environment, salary, and so on. They forwarded my resume to the company, and the company brought me in for an interview.
The short story is that I have never felt so much like I had aced the interview. I knew all of the software they were talking about, had experience with all of the tools they used, it seemed like a perfect fit. I came out of that interview excited about the new job.
My recruiter got back to me and sure enough they offered me a job...at 50% of my current pay! In our first discussion I had told my recruiter how much I made and said I wanted to stay in the same ballpark. The recruiter responded that the company wanted to hire someone much more junior so they only budgeted for a much less experienced person, but they liked me a lot (of course I would have liked me a lot at the salary they offered as well, it would have been a bargain). Suffice it to say that I didn't take the offer and never worked with THAT recruiter again. This is a great example of a BAD recruiting experience.
Now keep in mind, working with recruiters doesn't have to be like this, but you have to make sure that you and your recruiter are always on the same page. Here are some tips I suggest for working with a recruiter:
1) Be REALLY clearly with what your salary expectations are. The more ambiguous you are, the more likely it is that something will go wrong. If you don't even want to look at a job under a certain salary then tell them that. If you have some flexibility then tell them that too. I've heard some people say you should NEVER tell someone a specific number when talking salary, but I think that in the case of a recruiter you really should if for no other reason than to make sure you don't have the terrible scenario I described above.
2) If there is anything that would keep you from taking a job, let them know up front. If you refuse to commute more than 20 minutes, or you don't want a job where you have to wear a tie every day then let the recruiter know. It's in their best interest to make sure that they find you jobs that meet your criteria, so let them know what that is.
3) Be honest about any lead they present you with. If a recruiter sends you a lead, then look it over and give an honest opinion of how much the job appeals to you and also how good a fit you think you are for it. If there is something about the job that doesn't appeal to you, then the process can stop there, or you can go forward and hear more. It's really up to you. The recruiter doesn't want to send you on interviews when you have no chance of getting a job (or of taking the job), that just wastes their time and burns their credit with the company.
4) Make sure that a recruiter will only send your resume to places with your permission. This is pretty standard, but I have heard of recruiters that will just send your resume out to various places without even telling you about the lead. This is just asking for trouble. If you catch a recruiter doing this, I say stop working with them and go with someone else.
5) Be honest about the job hunting you are doing on your own. Let's say a recruiter comes to you with a job lead for a company, but you already sent your resume over to them that morning (or maybe some other recruiter has already sent your resume over). Tell them that. The worst faux pas in the recruiting world is to have your resume submitted by two different parties, because if that happens and you end up getting the job, who gets the commission?
6) Be aware of how the recruiter is motivated and get that to work for you. Recruiters want to get you A JOB, not necessarily the best job for you long term. If they can get you hired into a company that is a two hour commute for half the money and if for whatever reason you are willing to take the job then they're happy to do that. Keep that in mind and give them the information that lets them find you a great job.
7) Job hunt on your own, and don't feel obligated to work with only one recruiter. If the recruiter had their way, they would like you to only work with them and to do no job hunting on your own; however recruiters don't realistically expect you to do that. I think you should job hunt on your own. No one knows your skills and job preferences better than you do (and besides what else do you have to do all day?).
8) Track EVERY job lead. Whether or not you work with recruiters this is a good idea, but if you work with a recruiter (or more than one) and job hunt on your own it is imperative that you do this. That way you know who your resume has been submitted to, and by who. You don't want to be in a position where a recruiter calls you with a job lead for a company but you think (but aren't sure) that you've already applied there.
9) Keep your recruiter in the loop. I think that's just courtesy. I'm not saying that you have to call your recruiter every time you send a resume to someone, but if it looks like you might be landing a job (either one you found on your own or through a different recruiter) a recruiter will appreciate knowing that you might be off the market soon, and if you DO get a new job, they'll really appreciate knowing that you're off the market.
If you work with recruiters here are a few things I see when dealing with them:
-Sometimes you get a recruiter who implies they have a lot of job leads, when in fact they have one, and if you don't want that job, or have already applied for it you never hear from them again. It happens, you can always find another recruiter.
-Sometimes you get a recruiter who isn't familiar with your particular field and so they send you job leads that don't really match your skill set. The good recruiters will learn what you are specifically looking for quickly.
-Sometimes you get a recruiter who tries to push you into applying for a job that you don't really want, or maybe accepting an offer for a job that you are on the fence about. Remember they are motivated to get you placed, so don't let yourself be bullied into getting a job that you don't really want. The ultimate choice is up to you.
Another thing I've heard stories about (but never experienced myself) is where recruiters try to convince a candidate that the job market is much worse than it is, or that they're not as qualified as they think they are so the candidate gets desperate and scared, and is more willing to grab at the first thing that comes along. Of course if you do your own job hunt then you'll never fall for this.
I hope I haven't made recruiters sound like villains in this posting. In fact there are some great things recruiters can do for you. Here are some examples from my own experiences throughout my career:
-I had an interview with a company that a recruiter set me up with. After the interview the company told the recruiter that they liked me but they were worried that I didn't have a particular skill that was key to the job. The recruiter called my references and summarized what they had to say (which included 'quick learner' as part of their endorsement) and sent that summary to the company. That was something I could have never done on my own.
-A recruiter sent me a posting and under the list of 'must have' skills there was one thing that I didn't have. I told the recruiter this. They called the company and mentioned that I lacked this key skill, and the company said that considering my other experience they were willing to relax this restriction. If I had come across the posting myself then I might have sent my resume anyway, but it helped to have that feedback to know that my lack of a particular skill wasn't a deal-breaker.
-In a job hunt several years ago I had a job offer in hand, but there was another company (that I found through a recruiter) that I interviewed with that was my first choice. I told the recruiter that I had an offer but I REALLY would like to give this other company a chance to make me an offer before I accepted the first offer. The recruiter (seeing the possibility of losing a commission) was more than happy to call the company I was waiting on and let them know the situation so that they knew that I was about to go off the market but that I really wanted to hear back from them.
Wow, this ended up being a pretty long post, but I hope someone out the finds it useful. To summarize, recruiters can be incredibly useful agents in the job hunt, but you have to manage your relationship with them properly (which can be a lot of work unto itself).
My view is that I never assume a recruiter will find me a job, but I'm happy to work with anyone who wants to take my resume and find job leads for me. After all, you never know which lead will be the one that pans out.
Tuesday, January 29, 2008
Laid Off: Day 7
Posted By Paul
I'm sorry I haven't been posting more, but I've been busy revving up the job hunting machine. Here are some things that I have done so far:
-Updated my resume. This for me was top priority. You never know when you're going to make a contact that has job lead potential and the first step in the job lead process is almost always a resume. I updated mine as soon as possible (not only did it get me thinking towards the future but I was able to update it while my work at my old job was still fresh in my mind), and I had the luxury of having a couple of good friends review it for me for feedback. Updating a resume seems like such a simple task but it can easily take a day or two to get it really polished. Also since you're never sure when you're going to find a job lead I try to carry a few nicely printed copies of my resume in my car. One of my proudest job hunt moments was back in 2001. I was having lunch with a friend and they had brought a friend of theirs along. Turns out this friend of a friend worked for a company that was hiring. I gladly took their business card and was able to reach into my bag and give them a copy of my resume that we were able to talk about right at the table.
-Got references lined up. This was step two. Several people at my old company gave me their contact info and said I could use them as a reference. I made sure to get in touch with them and get their contact info and confirm that they were willing to be a reference. In addition I try to give my references some lead time every time I expect that they will be contacted (essentially every time a potential employer asks for my references). The idea is that a professional reference is someone acting on YOUR behalf as part of YOUR job hunt, so you should give them every opportunity to do it well. I once got a call from a company asking me to be a reference for an old colleague of mine (I'll call him John Doe). I'd worked with John, but it had been a few months and I've never been particularly good with names. When they told me the name it actually took me a few moments to remember who they were talking about. Once I remembered I was able to give the best reference I could, but those few awkward moments where I was struggling to remember who John Doe was probably didn't reflect well on John Doe. Cases like that are not only impolite, but if I am totally surprised by a call from some company asking for a reference for someone, then I simply can't give as good of a reference as I could have if I had been given some warning. Also, I suspect it's annoying for companies to ask for references and be told something like "I can get them to you in a day or two while I line them up". If a company goes to the trouble of checking your references it probably means you have a good chance of getting a job, don't give them any reason to hesitate, have those references ready to go.
-Wrote a "basic" cover letter. Fairly often you are asked to write a cover letter (even with resumes sent via email). I try to include a cover letter whenever possible, but I try to make sure it's a GOOD cover letter. I don't just have one cover letter that I use for every job I apply for. I think that a hiring manager can smell a form-cover letter a mile away, and I think it sort of makes your whole application feel like junk mail. Instead I keep a general outline for a cover letter that I try to personalize for each company I apply for. I think that makes a MUCH better impact to whoever reads it.
-Kept in touch with my colleagues. I really like to keep in touch with the people I worked with. Not only is it nice to have a group of people to encourage each other and share the experience with, but it can often be a great opportunity to share leads. The obvious thought is that these people are competing with me for the same jobs, and that's probably true, but the way I see it, there are enough jobs to go around, and usually the benefit far outweighs the potential risk. For example I came across a job lead where I didn't have all of the skills required, but I knew an ex-coworker who did. It was easy for me to send the job lead to them. Not only do I help them out, but if they end up getting the job, that's one less person looking for jobs in competition with me. Perhaps I find a job that requires relocation that I don't want to do, but maybe one of my colleagues is willing to do that. I can send it to them and help them out and maybe they'll return the favor. Also, let's say I get a job. It's common to still be contacted with job leads for days and maybe even weeks after (simply because a lot of people with your resume think you're still looking), and what a great opportunity to say: "I'm no longer looking, but I have colleagues that would be perfect for this job."
-Claimed unemployment. Not much to say here, it's nice that you can now file your claims online.
-Took a good look at my finances. This is an important step. Thanks to our emergency fund my wife and I can weather this storm for a long time if we have to. Our hope is that between my company severance and unemployment we won't even have to touch our emergency fund, but boy it sure is nice to have it there.
-Made plans for health insurance. As part of my severance my company is covering my health insurance for a couple more months. That's great but I've already started looking into health insurance options. I know people who will let their health insurance lapse as a way to save money while job hunting, but I REALLY think this is a terrible risk to take. If you go without dental or vision for a while to save a few bucks I think that's fine, but to go without basic medical insurance...just don't do it if you can possibly avoid it.
-Made some goals. I try to find and apply for 2-4 new jobs every day. That may not sound like much, but it's actually a pretty good pace. I've found that by trying to find a minimum of two new job opportunities each day (and I mean realistic job opportunities, I'm not trying to apply to be a pharmacist or some other job that I'm totally unqualified for) it forces me to keep hunting around for leads, and it keeps me from burning out on the job hunt.
-Kept a positive attitude. There are lots of jobs out there for someone who is willing to learn and work hard. I believe that keeping a positive attitude not only makes your "forced vacation" more pleasant, but it also keeps you from appearing burned out or desperate when you interview with someone.
-Been patient. I've submitted my resume to several places already but I have to remember that it could easily be a week or two before I am contacted by a company that's interested in me. Though companies are often eager to fill spots, many places only evaluate submitted resumes once or twice a week, so depending on when your submitted your resume it might be a week before someone even looks at it.
Well, that's about all that's going on here. Hopefully soon I'll be able to post some stories that are about preparing for and going on interviews.
Wish me luck!
I'm sorry I haven't been posting more, but I've been busy revving up the job hunting machine. Here are some things that I have done so far:
-Updated my resume. This for me was top priority. You never know when you're going to make a contact that has job lead potential and the first step in the job lead process is almost always a resume. I updated mine as soon as possible (not only did it get me thinking towards the future but I was able to update it while my work at my old job was still fresh in my mind), and I had the luxury of having a couple of good friends review it for me for feedback. Updating a resume seems like such a simple task but it can easily take a day or two to get it really polished. Also since you're never sure when you're going to find a job lead I try to carry a few nicely printed copies of my resume in my car. One of my proudest job hunt moments was back in 2001. I was having lunch with a friend and they had brought a friend of theirs along. Turns out this friend of a friend worked for a company that was hiring. I gladly took their business card and was able to reach into my bag and give them a copy of my resume that we were able to talk about right at the table.
-Got references lined up. This was step two. Several people at my old company gave me their contact info and said I could use them as a reference. I made sure to get in touch with them and get their contact info and confirm that they were willing to be a reference. In addition I try to give my references some lead time every time I expect that they will be contacted (essentially every time a potential employer asks for my references). The idea is that a professional reference is someone acting on YOUR behalf as part of YOUR job hunt, so you should give them every opportunity to do it well. I once got a call from a company asking me to be a reference for an old colleague of mine (I'll call him John Doe). I'd worked with John, but it had been a few months and I've never been particularly good with names. When they told me the name it actually took me a few moments to remember who they were talking about. Once I remembered I was able to give the best reference I could, but those few awkward moments where I was struggling to remember who John Doe was probably didn't reflect well on John Doe. Cases like that are not only impolite, but if I am totally surprised by a call from some company asking for a reference for someone, then I simply can't give as good of a reference as I could have if I had been given some warning. Also, I suspect it's annoying for companies to ask for references and be told something like "I can get them to you in a day or two while I line them up". If a company goes to the trouble of checking your references it probably means you have a good chance of getting a job, don't give them any reason to hesitate, have those references ready to go.
-Wrote a "basic" cover letter. Fairly often you are asked to write a cover letter (even with resumes sent via email). I try to include a cover letter whenever possible, but I try to make sure it's a GOOD cover letter. I don't just have one cover letter that I use for every job I apply for. I think that a hiring manager can smell a form-cover letter a mile away, and I think it sort of makes your whole application feel like junk mail. Instead I keep a general outline for a cover letter that I try to personalize for each company I apply for. I think that makes a MUCH better impact to whoever reads it.
-Kept in touch with my colleagues. I really like to keep in touch with the people I worked with. Not only is it nice to have a group of people to encourage each other and share the experience with, but it can often be a great opportunity to share leads. The obvious thought is that these people are competing with me for the same jobs, and that's probably true, but the way I see it, there are enough jobs to go around, and usually the benefit far outweighs the potential risk. For example I came across a job lead where I didn't have all of the skills required, but I knew an ex-coworker who did. It was easy for me to send the job lead to them. Not only do I help them out, but if they end up getting the job, that's one less person looking for jobs in competition with me. Perhaps I find a job that requires relocation that I don't want to do, but maybe one of my colleagues is willing to do that. I can send it to them and help them out and maybe they'll return the favor. Also, let's say I get a job. It's common to still be contacted with job leads for days and maybe even weeks after (simply because a lot of people with your resume think you're still looking), and what a great opportunity to say: "I'm no longer looking, but I have colleagues that would be perfect for this job."
-Claimed unemployment. Not much to say here, it's nice that you can now file your claims online.
-Took a good look at my finances. This is an important step. Thanks to our emergency fund my wife and I can weather this storm for a long time if we have to. Our hope is that between my company severance and unemployment we won't even have to touch our emergency fund, but boy it sure is nice to have it there.
-Made plans for health insurance. As part of my severance my company is covering my health insurance for a couple more months. That's great but I've already started looking into health insurance options. I know people who will let their health insurance lapse as a way to save money while job hunting, but I REALLY think this is a terrible risk to take. If you go without dental or vision for a while to save a few bucks I think that's fine, but to go without basic medical insurance...just don't do it if you can possibly avoid it.
-Made some goals. I try to find and apply for 2-4 new jobs every day. That may not sound like much, but it's actually a pretty good pace. I've found that by trying to find a minimum of two new job opportunities each day (and I mean realistic job opportunities, I'm not trying to apply to be a pharmacist or some other job that I'm totally unqualified for) it forces me to keep hunting around for leads, and it keeps me from burning out on the job hunt.
-Kept a positive attitude. There are lots of jobs out there for someone who is willing to learn and work hard. I believe that keeping a positive attitude not only makes your "forced vacation" more pleasant, but it also keeps you from appearing burned out or desperate when you interview with someone.
-Been patient. I've submitted my resume to several places already but I have to remember that it could easily be a week or two before I am contacted by a company that's interested in me. Though companies are often eager to fill spots, many places only evaluate submitted resumes once or twice a week, so depending on when your submitted your resume it might be a week before someone even looks at it.
Well, that's about all that's going on here. Hopefully soon I'll be able to post some stories that are about preparing for and going on interviews.
Wish me luck!
Wednesday, January 23, 2008
Laid Off: Day 1
Posted By Paul
So did anyone out there read my article:
You've Been Laid Off Now What
Well I'm re-reading my own article because just yesterday my company laid off everyone in my department.
If you had told me a week ago (or heck two days ago) that I was going to be laid off I would have said you were crazy. It was THAT much of a surprise for me.
So I thought I might as well blog about the experience in the hope that my experiences might be of help to someone out there.
So here goes:
I was pretty shocked yesterday. I've been laid off before, but this one really was a big surprise to me. I was literally working right up until they told me (and my colleagues) that we didn't have jobs anymore. Most of us were in such a daze that we just wanted to clean out or desks and go home, so I did just that. I was home by 1PM. I had lunch with my wife and my friend Matt and then just sort of moped for a while.
By 3PM I was bored with moping so I decided to go back to work and drop off the last couple work-owned items that I needed to bring in and make sure I hadn't left anything behind in my desk. I then ran a couple of errands and came home.
My wife was gone that evening (she teaches at a community college) so I had the house to myself. It really gave me some time to process all this. I was certainly surprised but that wore off quickly. Of course there was also anxiety, but there was also a new feeling that it took me a while to identify.
It was guilt. Even though my wife works I still make most of the income for our household (or at least I did before I got laid off), and I was feeling guilty about the fact that I wasn't bringing home a paycheck anymore. The last time I got laid off I was single, so this feeling was new to me.
Now all of this guilt was just of my own creation. You couldn't ask for a more supportive spouse than my wife. She's been sympathetic, optimistic and encouraging, and not once did it even enter her mind that in a way I was letting her down.
I know this because I talked to her about it. I didn't think that my guilt had any basis, but it felt good to talk about it with her. I still feel bad that we're going to cancel a weekend trip to the coast and that our upcoming anniversary celebration probably won't be the fancy dinner out that we originally planned, but we both realize these are just some of the things you have to do try to save your pennies when household income is down.
So that said I've been facing forward and diving into the job hunt. I'm updating my resume, and I've already applied for unemployment. I plan on sending out resumes hopefully tomorrow.
I've also been keeping in contact with my colleagues who were laid off (we created a google group for "alumni" of our company). Not only has it been nice to have a sort of email support group, but we can all help each other network as we try to find jobs.
I've started a t0-do list so that I'll stay on top of things, and I am also planning on adding a few "personal improvement" items to the list as a way to make my time off not just all job hunting and anxiety. For example I plan on taking a CPR class (something I've always wanted to do but never had the time) and do a few projects around the house.
Okay, I'm off to work on my resume. Stay tuned for more updates as the days go by.
So did anyone out there read my article:
You've Been Laid Off Now What
Well I'm re-reading my own article because just yesterday my company laid off everyone in my department.
If you had told me a week ago (or heck two days ago) that I was going to be laid off I would have said you were crazy. It was THAT much of a surprise for me.
So I thought I might as well blog about the experience in the hope that my experiences might be of help to someone out there.
So here goes:
I was pretty shocked yesterday. I've been laid off before, but this one really was a big surprise to me. I was literally working right up until they told me (and my colleagues) that we didn't have jobs anymore. Most of us were in such a daze that we just wanted to clean out or desks and go home, so I did just that. I was home by 1PM. I had lunch with my wife and my friend Matt and then just sort of moped for a while.
By 3PM I was bored with moping so I decided to go back to work and drop off the last couple work-owned items that I needed to bring in and make sure I hadn't left anything behind in my desk. I then ran a couple of errands and came home.
My wife was gone that evening (she teaches at a community college) so I had the house to myself. It really gave me some time to process all this. I was certainly surprised but that wore off quickly. Of course there was also anxiety, but there was also a new feeling that it took me a while to identify.
It was guilt. Even though my wife works I still make most of the income for our household (or at least I did before I got laid off), and I was feeling guilty about the fact that I wasn't bringing home a paycheck anymore. The last time I got laid off I was single, so this feeling was new to me.
Now all of this guilt was just of my own creation. You couldn't ask for a more supportive spouse than my wife. She's been sympathetic, optimistic and encouraging, and not once did it even enter her mind that in a way I was letting her down.
I know this because I talked to her about it. I didn't think that my guilt had any basis, but it felt good to talk about it with her. I still feel bad that we're going to cancel a weekend trip to the coast and that our upcoming anniversary celebration probably won't be the fancy dinner out that we originally planned, but we both realize these are just some of the things you have to do try to save your pennies when household income is down.
So that said I've been facing forward and diving into the job hunt. I'm updating my resume, and I've already applied for unemployment. I plan on sending out resumes hopefully tomorrow.
I've also been keeping in contact with my colleagues who were laid off (we created a google group for "alumni" of our company). Not only has it been nice to have a sort of email support group, but we can all help each other network as we try to find jobs.
I've started a t0-do list so that I'll stay on top of things, and I am also planning on adding a few "personal improvement" items to the list as a way to make my time off not just all job hunting and anxiety. For example I plan on taking a CPR class (something I've always wanted to do but never had the time) and do a few projects around the house.
Okay, I'm off to work on my resume. Stay tuned for more updates as the days go by.
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